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THE UN/CONVENTIONAL CEO
Interview: Dr. John Gray on Establishing & Maintaining Polarity in Relationships
Ever wondered why the spark in relationships sometimes dims over time? Join me for an illuminating conversation with Dr. John Gray, the acclaimed author of "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus." Dr. Gray shares his profound insights into how the biological and chemical dynamics between men and women, specifically the balance of estrogen and testosterone, play a critical role in sustaining attraction. Discover how traditional gender roles and understanding masculine and feminine energies can keep the flame alive.
We explore practical strategies for single mothers navigating the dating scene while maintaining their femininity, and the importance of setting the right tone from the beginning to prevent codependency.
We also delve into concrete dating tips for women, emphasizing the significance of creating enjoyable experiences and establishing clear boundaries.
As mentioned: Secrets to Great Sex
Books: Beyond Mars & Venus
Mars & Venus on a Date
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Welcome back to the show. I'm excited to have Dr John Gray back on. He was on back in April of 2022. And today we are going to talk all about polarity. In case you don't know him, john Gray is the author of the most well-known and trusted relationship book of all time. Men Are From Mars, women Are From Venus. Usa Today listed his books as one of the top 10 most influential books of the last quarter century. Dr John Gray has written over 20 books and he does such a great job of helping men and women better understand and respect their differences in both personal and professional relationships. He has appeared repeatedly on Oprah, as well as on the Dr Oz Show Today, cbs, this Morning, good Morning America and others. He's been profiled in Time, forbes, usa Today and People. He was also the subject of a three-hour special hosted by Barbara Walters. John Gray lives close to me in Northern California, where he's lived for 34 years, and he has three grown daughters and four grandchildren. What I love about John is he is an avid follower of his own health and relationship advice.
Speaker 1:Today, specifically, this episode is around polarity and, as some of you know, I have been realizing how much in the masculine I've been living as a single mom on and off for the last 19 years, and so I'm really interested and fascinated in learning how to be more in my feminine and to eventually find a relationship with a man who is more in his masculine.
Speaker 1:So, as part of my research, I'm sharing all of these golden nuggets with you. So enjoy, hi Hi. Yeah, I'm excited to have you back on. So today I would love to just dive in about polarity and also touching on, maybe, how I've had myself had this issue as well as other women. I know of attracting a dynamic where the woman ends up being more in their masculine and the men end up more in their feminine. I actually haven't dated in over a year because I really just wanted to heal things and stop attracting the same type of relationship. So, yeah, I would love for you to talk about that. Okay, yeah, so if you want to just start by maybe even just talking about polarity, some people might not even know what that actually means.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, polarity is most understood in terms. First of all, why do we even talk about polarity? Polarity is what will keep the attraction between men and women, and there's an old saying which is differences attract. There's also a saying of similarities attract, but that's more on a spiritual level. My wife and I have similar values, so that's more on a spiritual level. You know, my wife and I have similar values, so that's what caused us to be attracted.
Speaker 2:But that doesn't create the physical attraction. The physical attraction is a biological reality of she is different from me. She's think of it like she's a positive pole on the negative pole of a magnet. And when that's a polarity positive, negative pole and when they come close, there's a point where the attraction dramatically increases and then you get really close as a click. That's the spark of attraction that men and women can feel in their relationships. That go away after time. Now you know, the big question is why does it go away? You know what's going on. I mean, he's a guy, she's a woman. Why did they feel it in the beginning? Why did it go away? These are questions everybody has and I have the answers.
Speaker 1:Great, can't wait to hear them.
Speaker 2:So we're talking biology here. You know people say it's chemistry. Okay, between a man and a woman there's a chemistry. So we can look at chemistry from the point of view of when a woman's estrogen levels get very high, she will put out a smell that a man's nose will unconsciously detect there's a flap up inside, will unconsciously detect there's a flap up inside. Both men and women have a little flap up in their nose. It has a function to smell pheromones. When a woman is high estrogen, she will put out a smell that causes men to unconsciously be attracted to her, interested in her. If it's really strong he could be turned on to her. But just even interest, just the smell going by and the room is filled with smells and a woman walked by and she's feeling somewhat attractive.
Speaker 2:That's the thing that when you feel I'm beautiful, people are noticing me, your estrogen levels go higher. So when her estrogen goes higher, she puts out these pheromones and a man smells them unconsciously and is curious, interested what's that? What's that? Men produce pheromones when men's testosterone levels go up. When their testosterone levels go up, it's not estrogen, it's testosterone. And when it goes up he puts out a scent and there's actually studies showing that certain scents some women are attracted to, some women are not, but always the higher the level of testosterone, if it's the right scent for her, the attraction will be greater.
Speaker 2:Really, we're talking chemistry, biology. You know you can be with somebody and they can have all these qualities that are on your list and you kind of go. Why am I not turned on to this person? You know I've my own history and relationships. I teach a lot from my own experience and look for validation. I've been doing this 50 years helping other people, understanding other people as well, and I'm not that different from all of them in certain ways. So in my first marriage, which was for two years, I had been a monk for nine years. So no physical relationships, no sexual relationships, no sex with myself. I was a pure celibate no sexual relationships, no sex with myself. I was a pure celibate, which for many people is a calling to find God.
Speaker 2:So I found God, I found my enlightenment and it was time to come out in the world to find my mission, to be of service. And during that time started having sex again and had lots of sex. It was really fun. Uh, the interest in my partners would disappear. It was surprising. And then I met a, a very special woman, bonnie, who I was married to for 34 years. But she didn't want to marry me. Okay, because I'd just been a monk, I was spiritual, all this good stuff, good quality person, didn't have a job. So actually she had two little children from a previous marriage. She wanted a man who had a job and so we broke up. But I ended up marrying another woman who pursued me, who already had money, and she pursued me. So it was a role reversal relationship. Their polarity was reversed.
Speaker 2:She worked as my promoter, as my marketer, as my assistant, as my editor, and then we got married and I lived in her house, so it wasn't like I wasn't on my male side at all, but clearly I was depending on her for a lot other than her love.
Speaker 2:And when you depend on someone. That's a polarity. If I'm depending on you, I'm on my female side and you're on the male side. If you're depending on me, you're on your female side, and if I'm providing something of value for you, I'm on my male side. So we're always a mixture of both. Right now, I'm on my male side, providing help for people that want to improve their relationships. This is my expertise, this is my competence, this is my effort to help and give. So whenever you're in that place of giving, you're on your male side.
Speaker 2:Now, that's paradoxical because everybody thinks oh, giving is very feminine. No, receiving is feminine, giving is masculine. And ironically, when you're a counselor for so many years, you see that women often will say I give and I give and I give, I have nothing left to give. And yet all the spiritual books say you know, oh, this the joy of life, life is giving. And it feels so good to give. When you have something to give, okay, but if you don't even give, it burns out, yeah. So if you're a woman, you have to master the art of easy to give. For women, easy to give. What their lessons are is how to receive.
Speaker 2:And that's a polarity of learning how to receive more than you give. Now, the dysfunction is that when you don't feel worthy, feel inadequate, feel not good enough, undeserving any of those kind of deep feelings that are often subconscious, then you're constantly giving, thinking that if I give I'll receive more, and that's not the way to receive. The way to receive is to learn how to ask for help and to appreciate what you have. You know, there's an old saying if you be grateful for what you have, you'll have more. It's as simple as that.
Speaker 2:I'm reminded of a story from Russia of these very poor people, and they hadn't hardly any money at all. And a couple wanted to get married and they went to their holy person and said, can you pray for us? And says, well, I pray for you, but also there's the rich man on the hill. You should ask him for help. And they said, oh, he's scrooge, he's selfish, he has all that money and he doesn't give anything to us. And I said, well, have you asked? No, so we'll go ask. And so they go and they ask, and the scrooge gives her a penny and she takes the penny and thinks it looks as a house. This is this, all you have to give and she throws the penny down and she goes back and tells the holy man, oh, he's so selfish. He says, well, he gave you nothing. He gave me a penny. Oh well, next time go say, oh, I made a mistake, that penny could help us with a little loaf of bread or something for the wedding. We would really appreciate the penny. And he said, ok, here's the penny. And then, as they're walking away, here's a dime. And the story goes on here's a quarter, here's a dollar. Oh, you know, here for the musicians, they want the hoopla, we'll invite you to the wedding.
Speaker 2:It was like the Scrooge gives more when he's appreciated and you have to appreciate what you get. Now that's a really good parallel story to males and females is that when you appreciate what a man gives, he will give more. If you don't appreciate what a man gives, he will give less. And appreciating what you have you know itch, for some reason appreciating what you have is the key to having more. And you know the very popular book the Secret, which is almost worthless for men but really good for women, and I remember going to one of the seminars of one of the women who inspired that book, abraham.
Speaker 2:She wrote some books. Ask and it Shall Be Received wonderful books, particularly for women. Not that a man can't benefit from that because we have a female side, but I knew her before all those books were written. We're friends and she'd always say why do I only get women? I say because the law of attraction is what women particularly have to learn. They have the power of attraction and if they don't use that power then they burn out, thinking they have to do everything. So you have a woman who learns female powers. I have the power to attract people to do things for me, attract opportunities for me, and I have a male side that can make use of those opportunities and can serve other people. So how do you relate to that?
Speaker 1:So I've been operating as a single mom for on and off 18 years, and so I feel like I've been in my masculine a lot, and then I don't know if that's maybe why I'm attracting men who at first seem masculine. They'll take me on dates, do all this stuff, and then something switches and I become the one just giving, like you said, giving, giving, giving to the point where I'm just exhausted and then I don't want to be in the relationship anymore.
Speaker 2:Right, Well, you know it's interesting, You're not. You're not attracted to the man at all after that and I was giving this whole story of my first wife who I lost attraction for. She's a beautiful woman and after two years I was shocked. There was no attraction. And how did that? How could that be? It took me many years to figure it out, but it was that there was no healthy polarity. She was more masculine than me, I was more feminine than her, and yet I was working hard, I had a male side. So what was it that killed the polarity? That's what I learned.
Speaker 2:Then I married Bonnie and we had polarity, our whole marriage. And a part of that polarity was that Bonnie was anchored in her femininity and she expected certain things of me. She expected so many things of me that that's why she said no to my wanting to marry her. She said no, I need a man who can be there for me and my children, and you're still learning to be there for yourself in the world. And so that was me. I was just not prepared.
Speaker 2:But then, being in a relationship with Bonnie, she was not always trying to help me, I was helping her, and that's the whole dynamic of how you lose the polarity is when women start helping men. If you start helping a man, you feminize him, and one of the ways women feminize men is by listening to their complaints. Now I would presume that you were. You know, with your children, you nurture your children. You hear their complaints. Now you're going on a date with a guy and he gets the message that oh, she likes to hear my problems or she likes to hear my feelings and oh, she's into me. So you made him into a girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, and so the thing is is when you're feeling and it's paradoxical you would think that being a mother would make you feminine, but actually being a single mother makes you masculine. Being a mother when you have a husband who takes care of you so you can take care of your children. He provides the emotional and physical support you need, so that you have received the support. So now, giving is a beautiful thing. Now you're overflowing now to a certain extent. Children, uh, also, it's built in. They just give you so much unconditional love that you do receive so much that you can give back. But it's not enough.
Speaker 2:We're designed to have a man help a woman while she raises the children, primarily, and oh, that's such an old idea and I go well, think about it, come on. Oh, why are are marriages falling apart, one and two? Why are so many mothers single? No one taught them the skills of how to motivate a man to do things for you, to lighten your load. All a man wants to do is lighten the load of a woman. He doesn't know how to. He doesn't know how to communicate that in a way that he will hear that he will be motivated and that's it. It's really learning how to ask for help and how not to make him into a female, how to use him to become more feminine. So when you hear that, what does it mean to you?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what I realized right away was there was the last person I dated. I noticed my attraction started going down when he started complaining about work, complaining about his money he didn't have any money. And my attraction just started going down as he was like, like you said, just complaining and just venting to me about all of his problems and I didn't really know what was going on, because I wanted to help and I started to dive in and help. I even said, well, do you need some money? And then it just really went downhill from there. So I guess my question would be like when I'm ready to date again, what are some things? And for people listening, what are some things we can do as women to set the tone right from the start, like with the correct polarity?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah Well. So whenever you're listening to man's feelings, you're penetrating him, you're on your male side and you'll make him more feminine and also you'll be turned off to him because he's more feminine. Every man has a female side and you know, here I am on my male side and all my male side throughout my marriage with my wife Bonnie. I'm the same guy, but my first relationship I was on my female side.
Speaker 2:Now what was the difference? The difference was for me. I'll just say how my wife treated me If I was to complain not even complain, although if I was to share feelings, my wife always wanted to know what I'm feeling. Men should never, ever talk about their feelings. Now, this is so counter to what I'm feeling. Men should never, ever talk about their feelings. Now, this is so counter to what everybody is teaching. Men should talk about what they think. What do you think about this? What else do you think about that? Why would you think that it's so feminine? Now I can talk about my feelings when they're positive, feminine.
Speaker 1:Now I can talk about my feelings when they're positive.
Speaker 2:Feelings and emotions are all associated with estrogen, and thinking and detachment analysis, analyze, detach is all associated with testosterone. Now, testosterone we're talking chemistry here, here the biology of the body. A man needs to make 10 times more, uh, testosterone, otherwise he can't be attractive to a woman, he can't feel good, he has no confidence, he has no strength, he has no power. You know, there's a groundedness that men have when their testosterone goes up, where you feel I can depend on him for something, I can lean into him. He's a steadying force for me. I don't have to worry about him, I don't have to think about him, I'm not responsible for him. He's reliable, not just for himself, but he's reliable for me.
Speaker 2:These are all masculine qualities that a mother has for her children, but that's for your children. When you become that for a man, you're treating him like a child and he will not get the substance he needs to become masculine. Women today emasculate men, and I don't know what the word is, but what men do is they make women more masculine by revealing their emotions and their feelings and processing things out loud and asking for help and needing help. If you need help, pay her. It's not a girlfriend, okay, so you need to find somebody who needs your help.
Speaker 2:And so that's polarity. See, that's the male side, the female side. Now it doesn't mean I can't talk about my feelings. But if, like you know, my business partner recently died and which means I can't access my companies because I had it all in his name. He left it all to me. But it's in probate, which is, I'm telling everybody, put your will in a trust, Otherwise it's a couple of years before you'll get what's yours. So I can't run my company. So it's very, very distraught, frustrating thing. Yeah, if I talk about my feelings, I'll just become more distraught.
Speaker 2:People don't understand men. I can talk about it Because right right now I'm not talking about my feelings and I'm very much conscious of what I'm going to do about it and what I think about it. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to solve the problem and I figure out my strategies and how I do things. As long as the man is thinking about how I'm going to solve something, his testosterone goes up. When I dwell on negativity of how I feel, it's the worst thing for men and yet it's one of the best things for women. That's why 90% of the people who come to therapists are women, because we get you to talk about what you're feeling, what's going on inside, and it will make estrogen and when estrogen goes up, that helps to lower a woman's stress levels. And when estrogen goes up, that helps to lower a woman's stress levels. So she can have negative emotions and as long as she's talking about them with the intent to let them go not to feel better, to let it go.
Speaker 2:I just need to vent, share my feelings. What he would do? I want to vent. The worst thing is listen to a man venting. You have to, as a woman when you you're dating, not encourage that in any way, quickly become bored by it and immediately go into you talking more. You know that's hard for women. Ironically, you know women can talk, but often they can be on the surface, but if you're with a man who's more feminine, then you're going to be like said, you dive into him and you try to help him. It's the wrong, wrong direction. So as you start shifting your polarity with the men you date, you will be more attractive and attract men who are more on their male side. So it could be these guys are well, they already are on their female side. You know you get a masculine man. He doesn't complain, he doesn't talk about his feelings, he doesn't whine, he only talks about his feelings if his heart is broken. And if his heart is broken, he shouldn't be dating at that point.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's a place where, when my wife of 34 years died, for a couple of years my heart was broken and it's still somewhat broken, but it's healed and I'm remarried again. I'm very happy and all that, but for a while I needed to grieve the loss. So men also need to grieve, but it should be something heartfelt. Loss, okay a big thing when it comes to just problems in life. Suck it up, buddy. What are you going to do about it? Or do something to temporarily forget it, but don't whine about it. Ok, so so you can see, as a caretaker, you've been nurturing that in men.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, that's the first step, ok.
Speaker 2:So what else for women in that situation they can do? Do you have a son or a daughter? I have two daughters and then I have a four-year-old son. Big job, big job. So what you should know is the greatest gift you can give your children is to start dating again. Children need to see other people taking care of my mom and not us, because you've got a little group. They're all trying to help you all the time you know, and it's now. I'm all for children participating in the family. I think that one of the best books even better than my book on parenting did you not have a book called Children Are From Heaven?
Speaker 1:I have that book. Yeah, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So it's a good book. It's a good book, it's a good book. And there's another book that my daughter, lauren, is reading, uh, with her baby, and it's called hunt gather parent oh, I've never heard of it.
Speaker 2:It's not that well known, it's unbelievably good. So I'm not going to give the whole hunt gather talk here, but, uh, she will one day for sure. She's putting in the practice and it's an amazing concept. It's the opposite of the way we parent our children and I recommend any parent to read hunt gather parent. So forgot what my point was before I was promoting that book. Uh, oh, yes, it's what you can do for your children.
Speaker 2:And then I said, it's really good for the children to participate in all activities, meaning helping you that's a healthy thing. The daily duties this little baby, one and a half years old. She's helping with the food preparation, helping with the folding and helping with putting things away, and being a part of the family is the most important thing, so they're included in everything you're doing at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So that's all good, but then it's. It puts an extra burden. When you feel tired, exhausted and you don't have enough energy, that's because you don't have help. Now help, masculine help, particularly since it took a man to help make those babies. You need a man in your life to help be centered in your feminine, and so here's the strategy for dating If you start dating men, there's a place in your life that's going to start being filled up. Just male attention, and your children will feel your load is lighter. It's a gift to them. Now I'll speak from the point of view of a male. Every little boy just wants his mom to be happy.
Speaker 2:And when he sees mom stressed, he feels I'm not enough to make her happy. We all come into this world feeling I make people happy and then when our parents aren't happy, then we feel it's our fault on some deep level that they're not aware of until they do therapy years later. Okay, but there's a pressure, there's a weight that you see it today and so much of the younger generation, because they're all children of divorced families to the younger generation because they're all children of divorced families and they feel this pressure, this anxiety and fear. I was listening to one podcaster. He was like we all have fear. It was important to know we all have fear. I go, you know I don't have fear, I'm confident, I get the job done. He's like we're all afraid, we're all afraid. Well, no, we're not all afraid. It's good to know that you're afraid and to also know there's another option here.
Speaker 2:And yes, I have been afraid in my life. I don't walk around fear all the time, but it's just become the norm for a younger generation of males and this has a lot to do with simply chemistry. Their testosterone levels are so much lower. The average 20-year-old, just to get the baseline, is 20% lower than 20 years ago. This is disastrous. This is disastrous and, of course, women's fertility levels are dropping as well. It's not such a nice figure I won't even mention it and college educated women often have. Are you college educated?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a master's in business.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So you have all statistics against you. Your chance of getting married is 50, but you're lucked out and you have children. The 50% of college educated women at 50 years old will be alone for the rest of their lives and they not have children. That's the prediction based on the statistics we're in now. This is really a sad situation.
Speaker 2:Now, why college-educated? Because one, as colleges teach you that men and women are the same. That would be my interpretation of it. Two is that they don't see a difference between the masculine and the feminine. And two is they prepare you to be very successful men and they don't prepare you to be happy women.
Speaker 2:It's all about we only respect success, we only respect people who make money, rather than respecting mothers and femininity and wisdom of femininity. We just don't respect it. We're not taught. Men are not taught how to do it and women don't respect themselves, which is why they think if I become masculine, I'll get respect. Everybody wants respect, everybody deserves respect, but you don't become masculine to get respect. But in our culture you do. In other cultures that's not the case. Character, wisdom would get you respect. Age would get you respect, a lot of things like that.
Speaker 2:So, as a single woman raising children, or just a single woman listening to you. My best piece of advice is start dating, regardless. Date the men that you're not sexually attracted to. It's the most important thing. Date the men that are more attracted to you than you are to them. That frees you from a tendency towards codependence. Now what codependence is? It's a good word. It means that my happiness primarily comes by making you happy. Okay, so that when a woman's, you know it's part of the nurturing thing. You know when your children are happy, you feel so happy. Okay, that's when your children are happy. It shouldn't be. I'm trying to help this man be happy. Your job is not to make a man happy. His job is to support you to be happy. That's the whole. We have to get real clear, clear on who's giving and who's receiving.
Speaker 2:When women are codependent which tends to go along with absent father, dysfunctional father there's a part of them that's still trying to get daddy's love. As simplistic as that sounds, it is true. For many women, that tendency means that you'll feel physical attraction towards the wrong man. So the men that you want to pursue that excite you are the wrong men. They're going to be the unavailable man in some way, the wrong man, whatever it might be, dangerous, he's a drug addict. He's on his female side. And, by the way, the wrong man, whatever it might be, he's dangerous, he's a drug addict. He's on his female side. And, by the way, all drug addicts are on their female side. They're depending on something outside of themselves for their happiness. All overweight men are depending on something outside themselves for their happiness rather than themselves, and I have a lot of compassion for men.
Speaker 2:You go to a gym. You see these guys, 50 years old, they got these big bellies and they're working out. They think you know working out is going to get rid of their belly. It doesn't. When they're young it's fine, because they got lots of testosterone, but it's dropped.
Speaker 2:Their estrogen levels have gone up and as soon as estrogen goes too high that means if ever you're angry or irritated or you're afraid or you let fear control your life, you procrastinate, any of these kind of things produce estrogen, and when the estrogen gets produced, its function in a man's body and a woman's body is to put on fat. So estrogen puts on fat and so for a man it goes right to his belly and then the function of the fat in the belly is to make estrogen, so fat in the belly lowers testosterone in men, which is why a belly in a man is one of the highest risk factors of heart disease and it's the biggest killer of men is heart disease. But belly fat is also only occurs when a man's testosterone levels are going down. So that's the really unreported message is that you actually you can't have a heart attack if you're a man, if you have healthy testosterone levels.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Because we know that all heart attacks are associated with stress, and you only have stress if you're a man meaning stress hormones, if your testosterone is low. When a man has high testosterone, he doesn't have heart attacks and he also doesn't experience stress the way other men do. Stress is out there, so I'm not stressed, so if you have anxiety and nervousness, depression. Any of those anxiety, depression things for a man is always more estrogen, not enough testosterone.
Speaker 2:Anytime women are depressed or anxious or stressed, they have high testosterone low estrogen we're mirror opposites, so what you want to do, as in your dating process, is start breaking the pattern of feeling I have to do everything because, your brain gets into a habit of just you know, I have to have to, have to, have to, I have to, I have to.
Speaker 2:It's no longer I get to, I enjoy, I like, I don't have to. These are all feminine feelings of I get to, I enjoy, I like Even. I mean as a mother, you have to do so much and as a little remedy it's to catch yourself going to, I have to and go. Yeah, I have to do this. And why do I have to do this? And why do I have to do it? Because I love my children so much and I love them and I'm so happy to see them happy and I'm so grateful for this opportunity. Gratitude, appreciation, all those things and it's kind of a helps a little bit change your mindset to be aware of that mindset. But something real that changes your mindset is when you spend a whole evening on a date where you're don't have to do anything and a man is having to do for you yep and so basically, I wouldn't get that dressed up like just dress up for yourself, certainly if you want to wear things for yourself, but there's nothing you have to do.
Speaker 2:You find a man who's more interested in you than you're interested in him. That breaks that feeling of I have to win his approval. It just breaks it. I don't have to approve, I can just be myself and I'm not obligated. And very important thing for women who are to understand is I, if I receive from a man, I'm not obligated to return.
Speaker 2:Many times women feel like, well, I should do something for him. He's done so much for me, I should do something for him. And and for some women that, particularly when their father issues, it's a pressure to have sex with him, which is why they can, without even knowing they can, get turned on to the wrong man. Like, why do you get turned on to the wrong man? Well, you know he's the wrong man if you get turned on before he gets to know you Just any any guy that, oh, but I want that guy. You're feeling something in your body Ooh, wrong guy, wrong guy. And to the extent you've had that with the wrong guy, then the right guy is going to produce nothing down there for quite a while yeah say nothing.
Speaker 2:So it's you gotta, you gotta readjust everything I love that and so so, basically, the right guy in the beginning is going to be boring, nothing happening, and so so, rather than just before, use this relationship not to feel like, oh, I'm with the wrong guy, but to feel like this is the perfect guy for me, to try out my new non codependent skills, which I list out in my Mars Venus on a date book, a whole book. But the basics of it is use your creativity with this man to help create a series of positive dating experiences for you. What would be a positive dating experience for you? And ask him to provide that for you, but do it in a strategic way. He's going to say what do you want to do? Or hey, you want to get together and whatever he says, and you say, yeah, that sounds fun. And then you know if you're, depending on how you're having when they're having this conversation. He's going to say what do you want to do? What do you like to do? Have three things that you like to do and say here's three things and you pick. You always give three things and you pick. You always give three things and you pick. So you're responsible for letting him know three things that would be fun for you. So that way it's fun for you and he's going to be fun for him, because he doesn't know who you are. He doesn't know what's right for you. He's going to think of something he wants to do and maybe he'll hear those three things. He'll say we can do that, but something else is going on and you have to have the non-codependent awareness to go. Well, that sounds good. You can do that with your friends. This is what I like to do. You have to bring it back to. This is for me and you don't owe him anything. Maybe this helps some women.
Speaker 2:There's a study showing that to be in the presence of a happy woman for three minutes dramatically alters a man's testosterone levels and lowers his stress. Now, for a woman to be in the presence of a man who's happy doesn't do much at all. Okay, and it's not you. You can't know your power and the gift that you have by allowing a man to provide for you a fun evening, whatever it would be, and clearly you also set very clear boundaries around any kind of physical affection or warmth and he has to earn his way. Yeah, that's a whole.
Speaker 2:Nother thing is a tendency for some women. I won't say all, but I'll say some women it's like well, he's being so nice, he's doing all these things and and he's also probably the wrong guy for me, so I am turned on to him, so she'll have sex. Yeah, don't have sex right away. It's ridiculous, it's absurd uh, the wisdom of the past that a guy had to marry you before he could have sex. Okay, even then you that's he has to build up enough commitment to be worthy of completely melting into you. Otherwise it's too much intimacy for him and he'll lose interest in you or he'll go too far to his female side. So so this is a difficult thing today to negotiate, because women like sex too. There's no question about it. You have this thought of sex, but listen to your body, and if you want to have sex with somebody right away, he's the wrong guy. This is some kind of aberrant behavior on your side.
Speaker 2:The wisdom of femininity is I want to feel seen, I want to feel heard, I want to feel understood, I want to feel adored, I want to feel loved, I want to feel someone's in commitment to me. They're not just to me, they're not just checking me out. They're not just having a good time. It's not just a booty call this is. You know, we all have our younger years, we all make mistakes. We learn from our mistakes. I don't want to sound like this preacher over here, but the bottom line if you want to find the right guy for a great relationship for a lifetime, if you're ready for that, you start dating. Or a great relationship for a lifetime if you're ready for that, you start dating not just one man, but create a series of positive dating experiences with men that you weren't turned on to. Let me tell you what this does for your brain. You get to practice new ways of relating where you're not trying to win someone's approval, you're seeking if they can get your approval, so to speak. Let's see, be open to it Now.
Speaker 2:How this works is if you were to visit my house, you'd see it's a wonderful house. Oh, what a beautiful home you live in. But if you were to buy my house, you would hire somebody to see all the mistakes of the house. Is there mold in the house? Is the plumbing working? What does it sound like at night? You know who are the neighbors. You know what's the value of that. You hire someone to find out everything that's wrong with this house. If you're hunting for the right person for you, your brain is going to go into overdrive looking at what's wrong with this person. Yeah, as opposed to learning to enjoy men, you know, bring out the best in a man by, uh, not expecting that much but being surprised and allowing him to do things pay the bill, for example. So that will create a pattern.
Speaker 2:Interrupt from feeling all the things that you have to do. On this day of the week, I don't have to do anything other than let somebody take care of me, and that's the purpose of a romantic date. Whether you're single, whether you're single with kids, whether you're married women, take on, I have to, I have to, I have to. This is a day, a few hours, where you don't have to do anything, and then you expand that to phone calls. Okay, so phone calls, you want to. You want to be able to talk about what's going on in your life.
Speaker 2:You know I share an experience. I just did a session with a woman and at the end, you know, she talked and talked and I told her what she was actually feeling, because I can translate and I told her what she needs to hear from her husband and she started to cry and she felt so good. And I said well, tell me how you feel. And she said and she felt so good. And I said well, tell me how you feel. And she said I just feel seen and I feel understood. Even as a man doing this for 50 years, a part of me is amazed that just feeling seen and heard and understood could make somebody feel so good. I know it does, but there's no part of my own experience of just being understood could create that kind of response. That kind of response happens in me.
Speaker 2:Then what I, when what I do has an effect on somebody, positive effect. See, men are all about, they know it or not, they're all about look at their face when their team wins, you know, or they win, they're alive. Look what I did. I worked hard to get to this place, I accomplished, and so forth. You know, like those olympic people right now, you know they're, they work so hard to get there. And if they're, if their achievement is seen by the world, what a what a moment. So that's how I relate to it when my, when people buy my book or whatever, yes, that's me, that's me what I did, but for woman it's to a great extent it's who I am inside, what I'm going through, what I deserve, what would feel good to me knowing that?
Speaker 2:And the sad truth is, men don't know what to say. As a therapist, I know what to say because I've known this 50 years and I did it all in five minutes. She's she's crying, you know. But first I had let her talk about her story and everything, and then I say now this is the emotions behind it, because you can tell a story about what goes on and it's still just on a mental level. There's no emotion to it. There's no, I feel. I feel I'm powerless. I'm in a box I can't get out. I'm powerless, I'm scared, I'm afraid. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm so sad. This is not how I wanted my life to turn out. I'm so angry that he said this and he did that. See, these are all these emotions that are inside of women, and what I would suggest for you is in every woman, you want to become more feminine, you'll attract a more masculine man and you'll be able to pull that out of him just through the polarity.
Speaker 2:If a woman is very feminine, a man becomes masculine. If let's take an example, very feminist, needing help, when the men become most masculine is when women are in danger. Men rise to the occasion. You know, I remember one time I was teaching a seminar explaining polarity and this woman said oh my God, that's what saved our marriage. And I said well, tell us all. She said my husband's a roofer.
Speaker 2:They lived in Florida and he was depressed. He was anxious. There was a real estate decline and he was out of work and it was just miserable. He was depressed, made her depressed, it was unhappy and all that. And then a hurricane came in Florida and ripped off the roof. Well, he's a roofer. He got his family into the car, put them in the hotel, he started working on the roof. He was back in the job. He said it saved our marriage because he had a job where he could do and he could do for her as well. This is masculinity getting men to do for you and doing less for them but responding more to them. So that's another one of the anchors when you're on date. Another little I call them biohacks. Don't ask questions of a man. Women are the best interviewers, although yeah.
Speaker 2:They just. And then you know, sometimes a woman will say you know, I went on this date with a guy who talked the whole time. He didn't ask me any questions. I go. Well, did you listen to him the whole time? Yes, I'm such a good listener. Why didn't he listen to me? It's because he wants your approval and so if you ask him, he's going to keep talking about himself and he's going to walk away thinking I'm so great and not know you at all. And you're going to walk away feeling he only cares about himself and not me. Well, you set him up for that. You have to know your, know your place in the polarity scale here, which is asking questions, is a good way to start a conversation. Women are good at asking those questions. As soon as he starts to talk, then change the subject to you and another hack here is a transition.
Speaker 2:Well, that's such a good idea. Hadn't thought of that. That's one thing you can say. Or you can say well, that makes sense to me. And then transition back to you or, wow, you're right about that. And don't give an empathetic feeling like, oh, that's too bad, oh, you must be so tired. None of that stuff. You're not talking to a baby. You're not talking to a baby. You're not talking to a child. You just basically go yeah, that's quite a perplexing situation. Okay, uh, and then whatever you say, well, I can, I can see your point. That's it. I can see your point.
Speaker 2:These are such simple little things. Do not engage him in getting to talk about what he feels, because he's been trained by all these other women who don't know that men are men who want another baby and then complain they have a baby. They want to talk to him like a baby. It's absurd. But they don't know better because they went to universities and universities don't talk about what men are. They don't train men to be men. They don't train women to be women and also be on your male side. There's nothing wrong with being a successful, independent woman or being a mother is like the CEO of your house. Being a mother is a very masculine job and that's why you're supposed to get married before you have kids and be a mother. So you've got a man who is devoted to you and he doesn't need to be with. There's another distinction here. He doesn't need to be with the children all the time. Now, when women are on their male side, they sort of intelligently go well, I can't be with my kids, I have to make money, but women should be.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, the ideal setting can't always be ideal life's not perfect is to spend lots of time with your children. They need to have that mother influence, particularly up to seven years old. That's the time where it's most important. But still, mom's at home, you know, mom's there. Now mom's no longer at home, and not only do the children miss out something life's not perfect but also she misses out. But see for me, when I'm working eight hours a day while my wife was raising the kids, I didn't miss the kids because I got to talk to her. See, I'm connected to her. So there wasn't any deficit inside of me that I don't get to be with my children. You know, I hear all these men go oh yes, I don't get to be with my children. That's just propaganda. They've been told to feel bad about that. No, men don't feel bad about not being able to be with their kids. We've done this for thousands of years. It is an honor to be able to spend time with your children, without a doubt if you're also working hard.
Speaker 2:Now I'll speak to the other side of this. I'm not a workaholic where I wasn't there for my children. I was so lucky in the beginning because I married Bonnie and Bonnie had two little children at the time. And when I finally convinced her to marry me, I had to marry the other woman, divorce her and then came back and married Bonnie because I had a job, I can make money and my masculine side was coming back. She told me I won't marry you unless you promise to be a 50-50 parent, because my husband left me and I was left with these kids all by myself. And the last oh, this is when I wanted a discussion. I wanted to have a child with her.
Speaker 2:And she says, no, I don't want another child. I already had two and you could leave and I'd be stuck again with two kids all by myself. I don't want to go through that. And I said, honey, I understand that and I will promise you, pure promise, I'll be a 50-50 husband and I'll never leave you. And I kept that promise. And there were times, before we figured all this out, where I wanted to leave.
Speaker 2:But many times, people, that's when divorce is so easy today, Instead of like wait a second. You know, I can't easily get a divorce and for me it was even more powerful. It used to be a social stigma. If you got a divorce Today it's not. But when you're the world's expert on relationships, you can't get a divorce. So that helped me. You know that'd be too embarrassing for me. So it forced me to overcome the demons inside of me, so to speak, and develop everything. I've done. So the you know, last 15 years of our marriage were like heaven because we understood these things. It took a while to go through all the rough spots and maintain the passion and be able to bring that back, Understanding polarity and how powerful that is, Understanding so many things Like I used to get angry and express myself.
Speaker 2:If I feel angry, I politely say I need to think about this and we'll talk at noon tomorrow. That's it. I don't let myself talk when I'm angry. It's the worst thing possible. Now I have the biological evidence of it, Whereas, you know, everybody says, oh, you need to talk it out. No, you don't need to talk it out. Women need to talk it out. And if he can't listen, then she can talk to a friend, she can talk to a coach, she can talk to God, she can talk to her journal but she needs to get out of anger towards him if she can, and for me, my wife could be annoyed and irritated with me or angry, and after years of learning how to listen to a woman, I can easily do that, but most men can't.
Speaker 2:You have to be realistic. You can't throw your junk onto a man. You've got to process it. It's just negativity. You know we all want to be loving. How about communicating lovingly? If you feel like you can't, then talk to somebody else. It's a simple thing. But people have to be guided with this knowledge that talking is not the solution. Yeah, and when you talk you have to have skill. You can't just, you know, in the the name of authenticity, you can't just say whatever you think and feel. Yeah, that's not authenticity, that's, that's a disrespect for the other person. Yeah, but you want to be authentic. You don't want to repress and suppress, but there's people you can share with you. Can you know?
Speaker 2:You can read books and hear, feel your own feelings through others, and what's entertainment often is a catharsis for us. We get to get in touch with your own feelings through others, and what's entertainment often is a catharsis for us? We get to get in touch with our own feelings through other people's feelings. So many different ways. To me more sophisticated is feeling letters, where you write out what you're angry about, sad about, afraid about regret, about what you want, what you wish, and then you imagine getting what you wish and how that would make you feel, and you can turn a negative into a positive very quickly. These are all in my books.
Speaker 2:But we want to be the masters of our feelings and as a man, I have to do the same thing. If I get upset, I process my feelings, I don't go dump them on my partner. It's not that men shouldn't feel what they feel. You should feel what you feel. But if it's negative, don't tell anybody. Learn to transform it. Realize that it's overreaction. We're all overreacting all the time. We're all loving human beings at least actually not. We're not all loving human beings. There's actual psychopaths and even for them, if you get a psychopath, it's an extreme hormonal imbalance. You get a sociopath. Male is just all masculine.
Speaker 2:He has no feminine energy at all and a very weak person is too much female energy. You have to have a balance of both and I write all about that in this book. I should let people know, because I covered a lot of stuff and it's just the tip of the iceberg. Have you read this book?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have read that book. Yeah, I have. Beyond Mars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good, and yeah, I have read that book. Yeah, beyond mars yeah, so good. And yeah, just help people understand a bit about polarity. But I think that the main thing is step out of your comfort zone. There's men out there that are interested in you that are just not up to your level or you're not attracted to them, whatever. Let them be nice to you and don't feel obligated to see them again, but use. Use a few dates just to to practice your skills and see how much better you feel not having to be the perfect person for somebody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that, and it actually takes so much pressure off, so that's huge. That's yeah. This whole conversation has been so helpful to me, thank you, and I'm sure my listeners will feel the same. And so, besides, beyond Mars and Venus, you mentioned another book that would be good for anyone who's dating. Was it Mars and Venus Dating? I don't think I've read that one.
Speaker 2:No, I think it was Mars and Venus on a Date. Oh, mars and Venus on a Date, okay, oh yeah, that's really good for the dating thing. Yeah, it's a lot to it. I talk about five stages and challenges in the dating process and how most people unknowingly sabotage the relationship from going to the next level to the next level. So that's a very practical book.
Speaker 1:Okay great.
Speaker 2:And another thing for women who have difficulty with men, I really Lauren, my daughter, who I work with. She has written a beautiful course called Understanding Men and it's really fantastic. And now she wrote that course with me. I'm editing for her. She did it and then, years later, she's like Dad. You know, being a mother, I've forgotten a lot of those things. You know, I have to be reminded of it. It's very hard to remember the right things. So even her, as a master, was sharing with me that she forgets it. And here I am an expert at it. And there's still times when my wife is talking and I'll jump in there. Well, you ought to do this. I don't need your solution, john.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's great. Well, I will link those books you mentioned in the show notes. I'll link Lauren's, course. Can I find that on your website?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the website's there and if you're in a sexual relationship, I suggest going to my talk on Secrets of Great Sex with your boyfriend or husband. It really it needs to be something you watch together. It's many of this and they forget everything very quickly. When they hear it, they oh, yeah, I know that. Yeah, when did you do that? So there's a lot to learn about relationships these days.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much. This was like such a great conversation. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're very welcome, angela, Real pleasure.