Unveiled

Unlocking Personal Growth & Healing Through Lucid Dreaming with Mia Lux

• Angela Christian • Season 2 • Episode 91

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Have you ever woken within a dream, fully aware and in control?

My latest chat with Mia, a lucid dreaming expert, takes us through the labyrinth of our subconscious, exploring how this phenomenon can unlock healing and personal growth.

We discuss scientific insights into this unique state of consciousness and share our own transformative experiences with it.

Mia elaborates on the power of facing our inner 'money shadows' and other psychological aspects through lucid dream encounters.

Learn more about Mia & grab free resources here. 

Follow Mia on IG here.  Subscribe to her YT channel here. 

Mia's Bio: Oneironaut & Recovering Lawyer, Mia Lux has spent the last 7+ years training in both the modern psychological/ neurological approach to Lucid Dreaming and the Tibetan Buddhist lineage, fusing the wisdom of each into a practical, effective methodology for meaningful lucid dream practice.

What started as a quest to overcome her crippling fear of death, Lucid Dreaming quickly revealed itself to be a powerful pathway for psychological integration and spiritual development. A natural, trainable, and direct link into the deepest parts of our own minds.

Dedicated to creating an effective pathway for others, Mia Lux trains people of all levels who are ready to step up and explore this extraordinary state of consciousness.

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Speaker 1:

Society told us who we should be. I tried that. It's not for me, and if you're here, I'm guessing it's not for you either. So welcome to the unconventional un-CEO podcast with your host, angela Christian, where my mission is to help you break free from the matrix once and for all to live a life of freedom, joy, wild abundance and fulfillment on your terms, unsubscribing from the status quo because you don't fit into someone else's box. Are you ready? Let's do it. Welcome back to the show, mia. I'm so excited to have you here with me.

Speaker 2:

So, so happy to be back. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I'm so. I'm super obsessed with all things unconscious reprogramming. And then I started seeing your Instagram posts and you were mentioning how lucid dreaming can actually be used to heal and tap into our unconscious mind and I was like, oh my gosh, I need to learn more. And then I asked you if you'd come back. So I'm so excited.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, it's. It's. What's so fun about lucid dreaming is that, even though it's been a scientifically verified brain state for over 40 years like we've done the scans we've put people in MRI scanners we know it's real. Just now it's starting to pop into mainstream consciousness because we're starting to see the extraordinary possibilities with the direct link with the unconscious mind and know yourself and many practitioners who have, you know, worked with whether it's hypnotherapy or you know, nlp know how powerful it is to do these kinds of like unconscious rewirings, and lucid dreaming is kind of like that, but like times a thousand. So this is if you're listening to this podcast, it's the first time you're hearing about lucid dreaming know you are at the cutting edge of consciousness and research and yeah, it's going to be fun.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I know, and it's funny because I remember I think it was during the pandemic my teenager like on TikTok, it was like all these lucid dreaming. Do you remember that?

Speaker 1:

And obviously a different level of lucid dreaming that they were attempting to do, but like that was kind of, I was like, oh, it's so interesting. They were so interested, I think, in escaping, which is a whole other topic. But I would love for you to talk to us about what lucid dreaming actually is and then how you came to experience it, like what your journey has been using it.

Speaker 2:

Of course, and I think the first thing is important is for everyone to get on the same page about what a lucid dream is, because on TikTok, on social media, a lot of the confusion of what was happening was a lot of. What they were talking about wasn't even what I would say is like an actual lucid dream. And the cool thing is, as you're listening to my definition, you're going to say I've done that, so listen to this. A lucid dream is simply a dream in which you know you are dreaming as you are dreaming. Now, the important aspect of a lucid dream is that you essentially wake up within the dream, so you know how normally, when you dream, you don't really know you're dreaming and so you could be a different person in a different country. You're doing things you'd never normally do. That's because you're in a non-lucid dream. You're just kind of getting swept up with it. You don't know that you're dreaming. It's why we can be scared in our dreams. We're just, we're buying into the reality.

Speaker 2:

When you get lucid in a dream the part of you that is awake right now, so you conscious your day-to-day life, who knows, you know who you are, you know what time it is, you know what's up, that part of you reactivates. And it's actually, it's a particular part of your brain. It's the right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which is associated with self-assessment, self-reflective capacity, impulse control. This part of your brain lights up and reactivates. So now you conscious, waking state, you is fully aware within the unconscious mind, so you can look up, you go, I'm in a dream and you know that you're dreaming.

Speaker 2:

Now I bet most of you listening are like I've had moments like that, especially in a nightmare. You might've had a nightmare and you're like it gets so bad that you're like, ah, I must be dreaming. But of course what we do is we tend to wake ourselves up. The trick with lucid dreaming is you learn how to activate that state of lucidity and to stay in the dream and then what you've got is direct access, direct access to a high definition virtual reality, sort of simulator of your own unconscious mind. So when we talk about lucid dreaming in this context, it's very much that's the way. It's a unique, verified brain state and you know from that place everything's possible. It's just starting with that. And then I'm curious you know, hearing that I'm sure you're already imagining some of the possibilities, right? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

Well, and it's funny that you said about the nightmare, because I remember so clearly as a child I, my parents, let me watch nightmare on Elm street when I was like seven years old, yeah, and so I would keep you up. So Freddy Krueger was like always in my dreams, and so I remember as a child, though in my dream I would get so scared and I would just say, okay, this is just a dream, he's not actually here, and I would like make friends with him, and then I'd fly and you know, and so I didn't even know what that was, until you know later.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, and how beautiful is that. That, like lucid dreaming, is natural, and I think that's why it's so cool is that when you realize what a lucid dream is, immediately you can say, ah, as a child I remember, or in these moments. And this is why I love training people, because this isn't like taking psychedelics or anything that's pushing you in extreme ways. We're just reactivating a natural pathway, something that already exists inside of us. But it's so beautiful, it's more psychedelic than psychedelic because in a lucid dream, the experiences you're having are hyper-realistic. It's really cool.

Speaker 2:

There's a study that was showing that when you're in a lucid dream and you're doing something and they tested this with singing, arithmetic, sex and martial arts your brain is having the exact same experience that it would have in the waking state. All the neural correlates are the same, even the signals being sent to the muscles. You're paralyzed because you know sleep paralysis, so you don't act it out, but to your mind, there's no distinction between a lucid dream and waking state experiences. So the healing we can do here, the retraining we can do here, the you know, phobia, desensitization, the psychic integration when you have these healing experiences in a lucid dream, it has the same incredible, powerful impact as if you were doing it in waking state. But of course, you can imagine you're in a dream. You feel so much safer, right? So the things we're afraid of taking on, the parts of ourselves we're afraid to face, when you're in a dream there is a degree of safety, because when you're lucid you know I'm in a dream, my body is safe, you're courageous enough now that you can do the things that maybe could be hard to do in waking state. So enormous opportunities.

Speaker 2:

And how I got into it, oh my gosh, for me it was a crippling fear of death. I just probably like seven, eight years ago, yeah, just had it. Just suddenly the, the realization of death hit me and like we all kind of know we're gonna die, we intellectually know, right. But something landed in my system where I was like I'm going to die, everyone I love is going to die, and I don't know what I believe about death. I didn't have a really clear cosmology and so it put me onto a bit of a quest and with lucid dreaming, the tradition that I've trained and learned in is the Tibetan Buddhist lineage of dream yoga, because the Tibetans use lucid dreaming. The tradition that I've trained and learned in is the Tibetan Buddhist lineage of dream yoga, because the Tibetans use lucid dreaming to prepare for death, and so for them it's a very practical spiritual training ground where it works in concert with the daytime meditation practices. But, just how you're trying to stay more mindful and present during the day, those practices are what get you awake and lucid at night, and they feed each other. So for me it was a learning how to experience death before dying, and that's one of the tracks that lucid dreaming can give you in more advanced practice and, of course, in the process, the psychological implications.

Speaker 2:

So I know for a lot of your listeners, people who are really dedicated to finding their blocks and working on them, right, same as me. You're the same. We're like if I know, something's in my way, if I'm in a pattern that I don't like, I'm not going to stay in that pattern for 10 years. Right, we're going to find the pattern, we're going to clear the pattern, and there are so many roads up this mountain. Right, there's different ways you can work with these experiences. How you would do it in a lucid dream and I'll just give a general framework for it now and I'll give some examples would be when you get lucid in a dream. So the first part is to train how to get lucid. But when you're in a dream you have direct access to your own mind and you don't have to just kind of walk around doing nothing. At this point you can direct and collaborate with your own unconscious mind. So how I would do it is kind of like Jungian parts work, where I would summon whatever aspect of myself I'm struggling.

Speaker 2:

So I worked last year with my money shadow. I was like man, like I'm really. I noticed I had some real blocks around money and I was really curious. I was like, okay, and I'm really. I noticed I had some real blocks around money and I was really curious. I was like okay, and so I went. I got lucid and I said money shadow, come to me, and so you summon whatever aspect you want to work with and the incredible thing can blow your mind. When you try this one day, your unconscious mind, because it knows everything about you, it's like a bigger, smarter version of you. It then presents a personification of that aspect of your psyche in such a powerfully symbolic way.

Speaker 2:

So my money shadow appeared as a reptilian woman in an accountant suit. She was like a little nerdy accountant lizard, balding, really like fidgety with a clipboard. She was like hello. And I was like are you my money shadow? She's like yes. And I said, are you my money shadow? She's like yes.

Speaker 2:

And I said, well, what do you believe about money? And she says, well, the minute you leave your desk, you stop earning money and all your hair falls out. And I looked at her and I was like, ah, I grew up in such a conventional, I guess, household when it came to how you earn, and I really believe that you had to sit at a desk from nine till five and you could only earn X, many dollars per hour and it was very stressful and that's how you get money. And so it's so beautiful how it revealed to me my own patterns. But this is the really cool part. So now I'm looking at my lizard accountant lady. I'm like, okay, well, I don't want this to be how I feel about money. This is tragic.

Speaker 2:

And so the cool thing about a lucid dream is you can then do powerful integration work. So I actually had her lay down on the dream floor and I use my. You're magical in a lucid dream, right, you've got powers. I've called down all this beautiful golden light and I covered her in like a golden bubble and I just like sent her love, like I sent her love and love, and love, and she shrank into like a little egg and then she started to grow and grow and grow and the next thing you out hatched this unbelievable, giant golden chinese dragon which, by the way, this is why I wear my golden dragon around my neck stunning and she turned.

Speaker 2:

She turned around, she was up in the air and she turned to me. She says I'm no longer a money worm, I am a wealth dragon. And she flew off and I woke up and I was like I just released my wealth dragon. And it sounds insane. I'm sure some of you who are listening are like what this girl is making things up. But the power of your own unconscious mind, it's symbolism, it's storytelling how it knows you. You'll see, when you go into the dream and you do that kind of work with people, with parts of yourself, the integration is instant and that's why it's so nice, it's like hypnosis when you do the rewiring. It's instant and it's direct and it's done. I don't have to like process the dream afterwards. So I mean I've done. I mean gosh, I'd say like hundreds of these dreams, but you can kind of sense for it. So that's that's kind of the possibilities with the psychological aspect, right. So I'm curious what if? What would you? What would you work with if you could get lucid tonight? Is there any part of yourself you'd?

Speaker 1:

love to meet. Oh my gosh. Well, first of all, that gave me chills when you said at the end she came out as this golden dragon. That's like, oh my gosh, so beautiful. And I love that you don't have to take a lot of time after, because I like that, it's instant, so that's really appealing as well. So I think I would probably work on also wealth blocks, because that's what I've been working on this year or for the last like six months intensely, because I have a lot of childhood programming and I've broken through some of it, because there has been a time where I'll like wake up from my sleep and I'll have you know I'll have made money, and then I tell myself see, you can make money, you don't have to sleep at your desk and make money now.

Speaker 1:

So I'm still rewiring there, so I think actually I would do the same. And then my question, and I read one of your downloadables you're supposed to like practice before you go to sleep, right? Or can you kind of walk us through the prep maybe?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. First, I want to assure anyone who's listening to this who was like what Training to become a lucid is a skill, just like if you had never gone to the gym and you're like I don't even know what is what, which is kind of what I'm like. If I'm honest, then it could feel overwhelming, but it's a trainable skill and when you practice it it works. And this is why I love being a lucid dream trainer is because I've been training in this for seven years and I've worked the first three years that I did very intense training and so I've built a map that now, if I know, if I take people through the map and build the skills, you can do it. So, even if it sounds really far out there, just know again, this is a skill you can build, and the trick with this is to get lucid at night. You need to be lucid during the day. That's why I love this practice too. It's going to make both experiences better.

Speaker 2:

We don't really remember. A lot of us don't remember our dreams or connect with our dream space, because what did you hear growing up? Dreams aren't important, dreams aren't real, it's just a dream. We are so dismissive in our culture of the dream state. We think of it as like this kind of nonsense that comes out of our mind and so, because of that, most of our minds aren't geared to be in relationship with it. So the very first step is to build a relationship with your dreaming space, and it's really simple. The first way you're going to do this is just by keeping a dream journal. It doesn't have to be a big, elaborate thing. The trick to a dream journal is you're training your mind. Dreams are important. So the first thing you do when you get up in the morning is you write down anything you can remember, even if it's a color or a feeling or just to say nothing. You're's going to train your brain. That first thing in the morning we're thinking about dreams, which is going to increase your ability to recall. And the second thing you're going to do is, as you go to sleep at night, you're going to set a really strong intention for the experience of the night. And again, I know people are like ah, it sounds so waffly. Think about this when you have to go to the airport at like four in the morning and you have to set an alarm for like 3.30, like some stupid time? Have you noticed that all the way through the night you'll kind of keep waking up, going is it time yet? Is it time yet? Some part of us? There is a meta-awareness that runs over the top of our sleep. If we're stressed about something or excited about something the night before Christmas, it stays. And so what we can do, we're leveraging that matter of awareness by setting a strong intention.

Speaker 2:

Tonight, I choose to remember my dreams. I'm going to remember my dreams tonight. Or, if you want to get lucid tonight, I'm going to get lucid in my dreams. Tonight I wake up in my dreams. So by bookending it, you have a very strong intention. Going into sleep, you have a dream recall, a dream journal. In the morning You're going to start building that relationship with your dreams. And the richer your relationship with your dreams, the easier and easier it is to become lucid. So those are some of the core basics to it.

Speaker 2:

And then, in terms of the other practices, it's really if you think about why you wouldn't like, which is so silly, why don't we know? We're dreaming, you're in a dream, it's like a giant elephant. You know it's like your ex-husband and you're just like, totally fine, no worries, just accept it, and the sad thing is is because that's kind of how we approach our waking lives. Very few of us are ever fully present and ever truly aware of where we are moment to moment, and so the daytime practice is to cultivate a strong sense of moment to moment awareness, and a great way to do this is to sort of plan different points during a day, and some people can use an alarm on their phone. Some people, like I, use little sticky notes all over my house, so if I see a sticky note, I stop.

Speaker 2:

And then what you're going to do is you're just going to ask yourself like am I dreaming? Like, could this be a dream right now? Could this be a dream? Dreaming Like, could this be a dream right now? Could this be a dream? And then what you're going to do is something called a reality check, and if you're listening to this, you're going to do this with me right now, and you're going to thank me because so many people I've taught the reality check to, within a week, they end up doing it in their dreams and they get lucid. And a reality check is super cool. It's a. There's different kinds. It's essentially a way of checking if you are in the waking state or in the dream state and it leverages the differences in your brain. So we do things in the waking state, it does one thing. If you do the same thing in the dreaming state, it does another thing. So if you've ever seen inception here, the spinning top, this is real yeah.

Speaker 2:

So so the the real reality checks that you can do anywhere, the best one is just to look at your hands. So if you do, when you stop to ask yourself is this dreaming? You're then going to put your hands out and you should do this with me as well, Angela. Put your hands out like this, and then you're going to pick, like a tiny feature on your hand, a dot, a line, something really detailed, and then, when you've got it, you're going to flip your hands over and flip them back and see if anything changed. You can do it again. Did anything change?

Speaker 2:

If everything stays identical, you're probably in the waking state. But if you did this in a dream because your left hemisphere of your brain is mostly asleep and that's the part of your brain that processes detail, patterns, numbers If you do this in a dream, your brain can't replicate the hand that quick, so you'll lose a finger or grow a claw or your fingers will stretch. Crazy stuff happens. So if you do this enough every day, if 10 times a day, you stop and go Am I dreaming? And you do a reality check, when am I At some point? You're going to do that in your dream. By the natural habit of life. You're going to actually carry that over into the dream space and when you do that you're going to get lucid. So, rehabbing the relationship with the dreaming mind by doing your journals, by doing your intentions and then during the day really cultivating this presence and asking yourself where you are with those reality checks, that's like the basic foundation that can get you lucid pretty quickly.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I love that. And, yeah, when you were first saying that, I was thinking of Inception, which is one of my favorite movies. It makes so much sense. It's like if we're more lucid during the day, then it's going to be more likely that you're going to be lucid in your sleep, and so do you as a practice. Do you do this every night, or how often do you do this? I'm just curious.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So this and this depends on your degree of training. So when I was in my, when I was and am in like an intensive period, I will try to get lucid as much as possible, so usually end up being three, four, five times a week. The nice thing is that if you get lucid once in a nighttime, it's easier to get lucid again and there's lots of more advanced trainings. Like you learn how to surf between dreams, for instance. One of the things about this practice that is wild is when you start turning your mind to your dream state again a third of our lives that we mostly ignore you start to see there's so many subtle levels of conscious experience within it and you actually start to learn how to be skillful and working with that experience. So you know, when you have that skill built up, even if you get lucid once every few weeks, you could then have like five or six amazing lucid dreams in one night and like here's the cool thing. It's like you only need one amazing lucid dream to make a change in yourself too.

Speaker 2:

I think that's another part of what's special about this. There I know people some of my clients have had. You know, within the first few months they had the big lucid dream they were looking for, whether that was like closure with someone who had passed, or one of my clients had this experience where they they wanted to feel the Buddha's energy. They wanted to be like merge with the feeling of oneness and like the Buddha, and they have this incredible, incredible experience. And so I think there's it's. It's for serious practitioners, it can be a spiritual path, Like for me it's, it's a big part of my spiritual practice. But I see it in the same way. We teach meditation, where it can be an amazing tool or if you're wanting to work with something that's in your own mind, it's available to you and the nice thing is, like you know, obviously with ayahuasca or psychedelics, which, which I think also create these sort of pretty big state experiences, it's pretty physically intense. You know it's pretty physically intense and ultimately it's still kind of externally relying on something. It's lucid dreaming. It's like this experience where you're accessing this hyper-realistic environment.

Speaker 2:

I know, for people who maybe don't remember your dreams, you might think dreams are dreamy, but they're not. When you start working your dreams, you can taste and touch and smell things like waking life and you'll surprise yourself because you go touch a wool blanket and you're like feels like wool. You'll touch a glass table feels like wool. You'll touch a glass table feels like glass. The habit of your mind is so strong that in fact, one of the trainings we do in the sort of dream yoga tradition is to you know like walk through walls or to you know sort of multiply objects or do impossible things with our mind. Because even though we know it's a dream, sometimes your habit is so strong that when you go to try walk through a wall, the dream wall is still there. You bump your head and you're laughing because you're like I know I'm in a dream and yet my mind is is really sure, this is a wall. So you'll start to realize that, being in that three-dimensional, very compelling environment, you could have incredibly private and powerful experiences.

Speaker 1:

And.

Speaker 2:

I think that's. The difference, too is like you know, it's just you, in your own mind. You get to choose and face and heal in such a powerful and also really personal way, you know.

Speaker 1:

No, I love that and and so you know. I guess one of my questions because this is all new to me would be like if you do a lucid dream, do you still feel like as refreshed in the morning, or does it make you feel more tired? Yeah, that was just one of my questions.

Speaker 2:

It's a great question. I know a lot of people ask that they're like God. It sounds like you're busy and for most of us listen, how busy are our lives? Right, like we don't want. I don't want to go to sleep and do more work. Like this is. I hear you, and me too.

Speaker 2:

I tell you what the beautiful thing about lucid dreaming is. This happens in REM, so your deep sleep is in the first kind of three cycles, which is about the four and a half hours of the first part of your night. So if you go to bed at 10 o'clock, by about 2, 2.30, all those, the deep sleep which is your physical restorative rest that's when that happens. So you only have very short cycles of dreams in that period. Now, as the physical rest is out of the way, now your mind moves into the longer and longer dreaming and REM periods. Most lucid dreaming not all, but most lucid dreaming will happen in that REM state and your REM state, even when it's not lucid, your brain is more active than in the waking state. So we're busy. So the cool thing is, when you do a lucid dream you're not adding any more stress or tension Like you are fast asleep. Your body is in sleep paralysis, like you're dreaming. In fact, what it does is the opposite. Instead of having unconscious, repetitive, often boring or stressful dreams that we have no control over, that we're trapped thinking this is real, this is real, I'm having this fight with my spouse, or this, think of all the crazy stuff we dream about. We wake up going ugh, right, instead in a lucid dream.

Speaker 2:

You can harness some of those dream periods and use it for really beautiful experiences. Whenever I have a lucid dream especially like the powerful integrations or the ones where I'm like really doing quote unquote work I wake up feeling so alive and so inspired and so blown away by the magic of our existence. And I look around me at the waking state and I go, wow, this is so beautiful too. Like it brings it really brings a sense of awe and wonder and power. One of the things I like about this practice is it is your own power, it's internally discoverable, it relies on nobody or nothing else and you become the master and the creator of your own internal universe. Right, so you won't get tired from loose dreaming.

Speaker 2:

I will add an honest caveat when you train again because we're not used to it the first three weeks you're in the gym. It might hurt a bit. Yeah, it might hurt lucid dreaming. There may be a few false starts, like some of the practices, especially more, slightly more advanced practices you might like there's one called wake back to bed anyone who's a avid lucid dreamer will have heard of this which involves you waking up after that deep rest period and staying up for a short period of time and then going back to sleep. Sometimes, if you overcook it, if you stay up for too long, you can get stuck staying up for too long. So those are things where you can have these false starts, where you're like ah, I was trying a technique, it didn't quite work, so I want to be honest about that too. But the dreaming itself, absolutely not. And once you kind of find your rhythm and you find what works for you, it's like being able to use the energy output we're already doing to uplift us.

Speaker 1:

Right, well, that makes sense. So it's like, yeah, we're already there and awake, so we might as well harness that and like actually be doing things that will heal us and make us more alive when we're awake. So yeah, that totally makes sense.

Speaker 2:

I'm curious what's your relationship with your dream world, Like, do you remember your dreams or do you tend to kind of like wake up and jump right out of bed? Like, what's your relationship like?

Speaker 1:

I love dreaming, Like I get excited to go to sleep. I always remember my dreams and, like you know, I'll even lay in bed and just kind of think about them and try to like decipher them. But this makes so much more sense to actually go in with an intention and, you know, work on things.

Speaker 2:

So no, I love dreams. It's amazing that you have. It's so cool. You have like a live relationship already.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I always have had very vivid dreams and, like I know, there's something called I can't remember the name of it, but I've had and it actually happens as well.

Speaker 2:

I know like prophetic dreams.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, so yeah I loved.

Speaker 2:

Well then you're. You're a prime candidate, it sounds like if you have, you know, when you have a rich relationship with the dreaming world. I mean, I'm curious if you've ever tried doing like dream incubation. You know, not even lucid dreaming, but have you ever? And this is really fun too, especially if you've got a good dream world where you're just like, oh, tonight I want to fly, or tonight I want to dream about this person, or like you can, you can set an intention and incubate a non-lucid dream and actually have. You're not lucid, but you have the storyline that you're wanting, right. So like there, like there's also different non lucid dream practices that are really fun to play with as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that. No, I'm definitely going to look more into this. Well, and speaking of that, if someone wants to learn more about this or like work with you, what does that all look like?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. I have a YouTube channel where I teach. You know a lot of the stuff and you can go. It's Lucid Dream Dojo. Just look up Neolux Lucid Dream Dojo and my website is luciddreamdojocom and there you can learn more about doing one-to-one training with me or some of my group programs, which I'll be releasing the next few months, and I'll also be teaching on Nightclub, which is Andrew Holachek's platform Amazing teacher.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, but you go to lucidreamdojocom. That'll kind of give you everything you need to start learning, and I've got free resources and stuff like that too for anyone who just wants to sniff around and start, at whatever level they are. And, honestly, even if you've never remembered a dream like a lot of my clients, when they first come to me, they don't remember their dreams that is no obstacle, trust me. Like there's resources that get you out of that in two weeks. So so don't feel intimidated if you don't feel like you have a relationship with your dream. This is again. This is something all of us have the capacity to do. It's a skill we can train. It's just all you need is the willingness and the enthusiasm yeah, no, I love that and so would you say.

Speaker 1:

Well, you did share a beautiful example with us, but is that your favorite lucid dream example or do you have any?

Speaker 2:

Oh, so many. I think I mean one of the ones that was really powerful for me because, just for context, like I had complex trauma and I went through a series of years working very intensely with my own mind and had to go back and recover a whole bunch of compartmentalized memories. I worked with an amazing psychotherapist and a MAPS protocol so I use complimentary treatments always but what the lucid dreaming allowed was, as I recovered past memories, stuff as a kid, decades of trauma that I had suppressed for so long, it started unlocking other parts of my mind that would come up in my dream and because I had the lucid dreaming capacities, I was able to directly work with them. Right, and so one example is, you know, just with when I was working through this process, I was in a nightmare.

Speaker 2:

So this very intense, scary kind of woman, but she's like incredibly strong looking and incredibly aggressive, was in my bedroom and she was trying to catch me and I felt like kill me and it was a classic kind of horror story movie. I managed to get her out the door, but now she's like breaking through the door with like some kind of knife. So this is very classic nightmare. At some point I'm able to. I recognize the dream and I get lucid and when I opened the door I see behind her she has all these women strung up and almost like shibari ropes like, but strung up like how a spider would string people up. And I was like, oh damn, like that's what she's going to do to me. And the question you want to ask your dream figures, especially nightmare figures, is what do you represent?

Speaker 2:

you want to ask your dream figures especially nightmare figures is what do you represent, right? And so I open the door, I'm lucid, I send her love, what you do to send her love. She calms down. She calms down because now I'm witnessing her. This is like real life stuff. Hello, you know human little part of me. She calms down and I'm able to take her by the hand and we sit down and I say you tell me, what do you represent? And she says you know, I'm the part of you that tries to lock you away to keep you safe from them.

Speaker 2:

And it struck me I had decades of molestation that this was a part of me that had, you know, especially those figures, had essentially locked and kept parts away, come to get them, to kidnap them and keep them away to keep them safe from the experiences.

Speaker 2:

So it was one of my protective mechanisms that I had raised as a child who had exhibited this very intense energy and so integrating her, sending her love. She like dissolved into golden light and disappeared. And this work, with this profound sense of peace, like just this profound sense of understanding and compassion for some of my behavior that I had never understood but I could now see was a protective response from from the trauma I'd experienced and then the feeling of having that aspect of myself back in my heart, back in my home, integrated into my psyche, individuated, as Carl Jung would say, you just I just woke up so peaceful, so I mean I wake up in tears often Like these kinds of experiences will literally change your life, and that's why I love teaching people this, because we all have such bespoke minds, bespoke psyches, bespoke strengths, bespoke traumas, and there's no one capable of healing ourselves more than ourselves. Like your unconscious mind knows more about what you need than any therapist in the entire world. And so if you build a direct relationship, there is a really an unparalleled opportunity.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so beautiful. It literally like brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing that, because a lot of people I know, people I work with have experienced trauma as well. So it's how beautiful to be able to just tap into that, like while you're sleeping, and then wake up with peace. That's beautiful.

Speaker 2:

I mean the fragments, right, this is the thing is like, especially for women, like I really feel, like so much of who we are gets fragmented so early, especially like we talk about the shadow, but the golden shadow for a lot of women. They've had to hide so much of what was good about them. Right, to keep safe Can't be too pretty, can't be too smart, can't be too funny, can't be whatever it is, and those aspects get split off too. So, you know, one of the great dream missions I give people is to summon their golden shadow and then up comes an aspect of themselves that is a quote, unquote, a good one, but that you had to keep safe and so you can recover. You're not just facing your monsters but finding your treasures, right, like finding all the shit we had to put away because of the experiences we went through as young people, and it's such a beautiful, poetic way. So, yeah, wow. So come loose a dream with me.

Speaker 1:

That is gosh. I'm like, wow, I've never heard of that quote before and that's something I've learned, actually, because I was always told to you know, I used to be super outgoing and just like flashy and loud, and as a child and then growing up, I just to be super outgoing and just like flashy and loud and as a child and then growing up, I just kept from. All different people kept being told like be quiet, don't talk so much, like don't cause so much attention, and so then I became, I literally had a fear of public speaking for so long, you know, and it's like, yeah, that's beautiful that we can use it also for that.

Speaker 2:

Isn't it such a? Isn't it such a bummer? Yeah, like such a bummer that we have these, these and it's, and like your story is unfortunately not abnormal. It's so common, right, and and I think that's such a. I know you've obviously done amazing work recovering and dealing with that.

Speaker 2:

I think one of the things I think that I like about blue streaming is that it surprises you, because if you summon your golden shadow, you don't always know what you're going to get.

Speaker 2:

And this is where the creativity and the collaboration comes in, because if you go to a therapist, often you kind of you have to consciously know and decide what you're going to work on. But when you go to the unconscious and you ask it something like show me an aspect of my golden shadow, it can present like the first time I did that, it actually presented part of my sexuality, because I also had and I was never expecting that, it was kind of like more like an innocent sexuality that had been pushed down. And the next time was my inner storyteller, because, like you, I was always told stop being so loud, stop talking so much. Right? And my inner storyteller, who was a sweet, wise old man, shoved at the back of a marketing building in the dream who'd been waiting for 30 years to come get collected. So you don't even know the aspects of yourself that you're going to discover. When you kind of give the dream a, you're kind of like dealer's choice, dealer's choice. You tell me what I need to recover. Right, it's super fun.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that. Wow, I'm so excited to try. Thank you, yeah, anything else. You of course, there before we wrap up, anything else that you would want people to know.

Speaker 2:

Just I just yeah, just just an invitation to re like, to re-relate to your dreaming state because, you know, in Tibetan Buddhism it's called the measure of the path for a reason.

Speaker 2:

And the measure of the path in the sense of in our conscious, waking state, we can intellectualize things and think we know things and think we've done our work. Like it's and I know this, this is really from personal experience but when we go into our dream state, even our non-lucid dreaming state, right, it's often a mirror of stuff that needs to be worked on. Even if it's a repeated dream of being stuck in a car park or the tone of just being socially uncomfortable, the emotional tone and the patterns of our dreaming space are such powerful clues on what's ready to be worked on. And so, even if it's not lucid dreaming, I just really encourage you to re-relate to your dreaming space and to see it as an ally in helping you, kind of map like what is ripe for work and what is ripe for being released and what is ripe for being healed. And you know, just building that relationship it's a beautiful relationship that will help you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you so much. This was really exciting and I'm going to link all of your, your website and everything in the show notes and then definitely check out the free downloadables, because those were really cool to get started with, just for the listeners.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, thank you so much. No, of course, it was really so fun to connect and to chat. Thank you so much for having me on board.